Steven Hayes Conducts Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)

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STEVEN HAYES: This next section that you're going to see is right after we've dug down to a core thought, "I'm bad," which is linked out and a far more pervasive pattern of thinking. I'm going to take her back to an earlier time.

I think it can be good do that because often, we have a more accepting and compassionate stance for children than we ever would for the person in the mirror. I'm going to try to help with acceptance and help her to see that it's an active, compassionate, values-based stance to move in a direction, not simply another reaction, not simply another passenger on the bus.

WOMAN: You're bad.

STEVEN HAYES: "I'm bad."

WOMAN: "I'm bad." Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: Do you remember how old you were when that first came to mind?

WOMAN: No. It seems like it's always been there.

STEVEN HAYES: Been a long time, hasn't it?

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: How tall were you?

WOMAN: Very little.

STEVEN HAYES: Pretty little.

WOMAN: Very little. Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: So it isn't just other people saying to you, you're lazy, et cetera. Some of this stuff probably came to mind kind of on your own, yeah?

WOMAN: Yeah, like maybe I just sort of reached that conclusion somehow in my little kid mind.

STEVEN HAYES: Yeah.

WOMAN: And then it stuck.

STEVEN HAYES: Yeah, exactly.

Go back and see if you can find it. How old would you be when "I'm bad" first really shows up? Probably, you're not telling other people, right? You're not running, saying, mommy, I'm having a thought I'm bad.

WOMAN: No.

STEVEN HAYES: No. This is like a secret.

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: A shameful secret, a worry.

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: Maybe you're—

WOMAN: Maybe there's something wrong with me.

STEVEN HAYES: Maybe there's something wrong with you. Deep down, maybe there's something wrong with you.

WOMAN: Yeah. But it seems like I wouldn't even be able to sort of have a thought like that unless I could understand the words.

STEVEN HAYES: Yeah. So you're probably at least verbal.

WOMAN: Yeah, two or three.

STEVEN HAYES: Infants don't do this.

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: Two or three—

WOMAN: Three.

STEVEN HAYES: Can you picture—yeah, three years old. My goodness. Let's add another year or so just so your verbal ability is a little more because it's hard to talk to a three-year-old.

Let's take you up to five. Do you remember what you looked like when you were five?

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

STEVEN HAYES: You have any pictures in mind of goofy things you used to wear and your shoes and little dresses?

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: OK. OK. So here's what I want you to do. I'd like you to kind of get in touch with what it was like to sort of be that little girl. OK?

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

STEVEN HAYES: And I want you to sort of get in touch with what it felt like to have that show up in her head.

OK. And then here's what I want you to do. I want you to imagine that she's walking in the room right now.

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

STEVEN HAYES: And she's that age. Can you see her kind of coming in here? And she's got that dress on? Or is it a dress? Maybe it's not.

Yeah. Yeah, that. She's got those little shoes on. She's got those little hands. She's got that little hairdo that she had. So here she is.

Now, if she were actually here right now, what would you want to say to her? Let's say she doesn't know that you're her grown up. But just in our mind's eye and magic, it's OK that she's here with you.

She's cool with you being here. But you know exactly because you lived it what's going on inside. Yeah, good.

WOMAN: Excuse me.

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OK.

STEVEN HAYES: You know what's going on inside her? Can you see her here? What would you want to tell her? If you could actually have this moment, you know what's ahead of her. You know the path she's going to follow.

And guess what? She ended up here. And some of the things that are going on here were going on there.

WOMAN: So you want me to—

STEVEN HAYES: What would you want to say to her?

WOMAN: You want me to just talk to the—

STEVEN HAYES: Yeah. If you actually had that opportunity, what would you say to her? And absolutely, if you can say it to her directly, say it. What would you want to tell her?

WOMAN: You're just fine. You're beautiful and perfect just the way you are. And you don't have to worry about anything.

STEVEN HAYES: But she has these thoughts. She has these scary thoughts that deep down, there's something wrong with her. Can you see it? you Can you see it in your eyes?

Is she doing a little act for you? She wanted to be thought of well? What does she try to do with the adults around her? Is she drawing attention to herself? Is she trying to hide? What did she do?

WOMAN: She definitely performed.

STEVEN HAYES: She performed. She put on an act. She's pretty smart, too, yeah?

WOMAN: Yeah. She liked to goof around.

STEVEN HAYES: OK, good. So she's doing that for us here. But if we can see through it and see what's going on with her, she's got these thoughts. She doesn't even know they're just thoughts. She thinks there's something bad about her.

WOMAN: There's nothing wrong with you. You're perfect. You're perfect just the way you are. You're just the way you're supposed to be.

STEVEN HAYES: Yeah. And just like when you're arguing with your head, my guess is do you think that's really doing it for her?

WOMAN: No.

STEVEN HAYES: Probably not.

WOMAN: Because just saying the words implies their opposite.

STEVEN HAYES: That's interesting. Yeah. Now she's feeling bad because she's feeling bad. She's not supposed to be. Well, let me just ask you this. What does she really want from you and from the adults around her?

What does she really want? Does she want to be told that she should think differently? Like when you said that—OK. So what does she really want? Go inside that little girl again.

WOMAN: I think she needs to be loved just the way she is, loved and accepted.

STEVEN HAYES: And accepted. You betcha.

WOMAN: Then to feel it—

STEVEN HAYES: And to feel it, not just be told it.

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: So that's probably not saying, don't think that. Think something different. If we actually said that to her, if that actually happened—people probably did say that to her.

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: If she let it leak, I guarantee you they said that to her. But now it means even that fear is wrong.

Don't be afraid, OK? But she still wants something from us. So like if you were to actually have it out in the world of behavior, if she was here, what would be something you might do in the world of behavior that would express what it is that she--not express what she wants but that would give her what she wants? If you can't talk her out of it, what are you going to do?

WOMAN: I think I would just express with my face and my body. I would smile at her and open my arms and hold her.

STEVEN HAYES: OK. Very good. So let's actually do that. We're going to bring her up here.

WOMAN: You want me to hug the nobody?

STEVEN HAYES: We're going to bring her up here. She's going to sort of get with you because guess what, she's with you right now, anyway.

So she's up here on your lap. Is there anything that has to change about this little girl before she's OK? Is what she's asking for so outrageous? Has she done something so horrible?

WOMAN: No, of course not. She's just a little girl.

STEVEN HAYES: So she's deserving of love and acceptance. Yes? OK. But when you challenge her and you say, don't think that, that doesn't feel like love and acceptance to her. It feels like she's done even now something else that's wrong.

WOMAN: Mm-mm.

STEVEN HAYES: You with me on this?

WOMAN: Yeah, I see.

STEVEN HAYES: OK. So if she's not done anything to deserve this, why don't we just sort of get with her? Is she a good little kid?

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: She is. OK. So in your mind's eye, let's just imagine that you sort of get with it that it's OK for her to be this little girl and to still be loved and accepted, even though sometimes she worries.

She has those thoughts. She doesn't know what to do with them. But we're going to do it more with our behavior, sort of tell her with our behavior. OK. And as you do that, let's just imagine she sort of goes right inside you.

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

STEVEN HAYES: She's here with you right now. She's now completely inside you. And you teared up at the little girl walking in. That little girl you're tearing up on is with you now. True?

There's a part of you right now that lived through this. Now, here's the question I'd want to ask. Can you honor what you did behaviorally? What you did was you basically said with your behavior, it's OK for her to be her. And you'd stand with her. With me on this?

WOMAN: Yeah.

STEVEN HAYES: When you have a thought, like, "maybe I'm bad" and you tell her not to think that, you might as well just slap her in the face. Why don't you just slap her in the face? Why don't you put her in the corner?

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

STEVEN HAYES: Why don't you discipline her? See what I'm saying?

WOMAN: Yeah. I do.

STEVEN HAYES: Is that what you want to be doing with her?

WOMAN: No.

STEVEN HAYES: OK. So when you have that thought and you sort of stand with her, the form of that is something more like OK.

WOMAN: Mm-hm.

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