Gender norms exerted a powerful influence on Greek society, shaping almost every aspect of both public and private life. This did not mean, however, that all Greeks accepted traditional ideas about the roles of men and women as either perfect or unchangeable. This excerpt from Plato’s Republic provides an example of Greek efforts to subject the gender divisions in Greek society to rational examination and critique. In it, Socrates attempts to convince Plato’s brother Glaucon that the wives of guardians, men chosen to rule Plato’s proposed republic on the basis of their leadership qualities, should share as much as possible the characteristics and training of their husbands. As you read the excerpt, consider how Plato’s Greek readers might have responded to his proposal. How might his opponents have countered his arguments?

As far as our men are concerned, once they have been formed and educated in the way we have been discussing, there is in my opinion only one way for them to possess and use women and children, and that is for them to start as we have made them start. We decided for the purposes of our argument to put these men in the position of guards of a flock.

Let’s follow the argument, then, by giving them an analogous birth and upbringing as the guards of a flock, and let’s consider whether the analogy is appropriate.

What do you mean? said Glaucon.

As follows: do we think that the females among guard dogs should guard along with the males in everything they undertake to guard, and hunt along with them, and do other things in common, or do the females stay at home inside because they are incapable because of childbearing and –rearing, and the males do the work and have the whole responsibility of guarding the flocks? They do everything in common, except that we will treat the females as weaker, and the males as stronger.

But can you use animals for the same purposes, if you do not provide them with similar upbringing and training?

No, that would be impossible.

Therefore if we use women for the same purposes as men we must teach them the same things.

Yes.

They must be educated in music and in gymnastics.

Yes.

And in addition to those two skills they must be educated in the art of war, and know how to practise it.

That follows from what you are saying.

Perhaps, I said, much of what I have now been saying would, if carried out appear absurd because it is contrary to practice.

It certainly would, said Glaucon.

Which of the ideas do you regard as most absurd? Surely it must be the notion of women exercising naked alongside men in the palaestras, and not just young women, but older women too, like old men in the gymnasia, who like to work out even though they are wrinkled and not attractive to look at.

By Zeus, he said, the notion would appear absurd, according to present-day standards.

But, I said, isn’t it true that when we began this discussion we said that we must not be afraid of the type of jokes clever people will make, when they speak against the charges we have proposed in gymnastics and music and not least in the bearing of arms and riding on horseback.

Correct, he said.

As far as the male and female sexes are concerned, if one appears suited to a particular art or practice, we will say that the other one is inferior to it in that respect. If they appear to be different in just this respect, that the female gives birth, and the male begets, we shall not admit that it has not yet been shown that the kind of distinction exists between male and female that we are talking about, but rather will continue to think that the guardians and their wives should have the same responsibilities.

Rightly so, said he.

Do you know of any human concern in which the male sex is not superior to the female? Or shall we embark on a tedious discussion of weaving or pot-watching or baking, in which the female sex prides itself, and looks most ridiculous when bested [by men]?

That’s true, replied Glaucon, one sex wins out over others in virtually everything, though many women are better in many respects than many men. But on the whole it is as you say.

Therefore, my friend, there are no governmental responsibilities that fall to a female because she is female, or to a male because he is male, but in the same way the natural abilities are divided up in both sexes, and females by nature share all responsibilities, and so do males, except that in all of them a female is a weaker being than a male.

Absolutely.

Should we assign all responsibilities to males, and none to females?

By no means.

But there are, I believe, as we will admit, women who are by nature physicians, and women who are not, and women who are musical, and those who are not?

Of course.

And aren’t there women who are athletes, and warlike, and other who are unwarlike and unathletic?

I believe so.

In addition, aren’t there women who are eager to learn, and those who hate learning, and women who are courageous, and women who are cowards?

There are.

And there are women who are guardians, and women who are not. And didn’t we select the nature of our male guardians in this way?

We did.

Women and men have the same nature as far as the guardianship of the city is concerned, except in those aspects where they are by nature weaker or stronger.

So it seems.

And these special women should be selected to live with the special men and to share the duties of guardianship with them, since they are capable and similar to the men in their nature.

Absolutely.

And shouldn’t we give the same responsibilities to the same natures?

Certainly.

We have been brought back again to where we started, and we agree that it is not contrary to their nature to assign gymnastics and music to the wives of the guardians.

Absolutely.

The wives of the guardians should strip, since they will be clothed in virtue instead of cloaks, and they should share in fighting and the other duties of guardianship of the city, and not do otherwise. But the lighter tasks of guardianship should be given to the women rather than to the men because of the female sex’s physical weakness. The man who laughs at women exercising, when they are exercising for the noblest reasons, in his laughter “plucks the fruit of his wisdom before it is ripe,” and I think, doesn’t know what he is laughing at or what he is doing. For this has been and always will be the best of advice: what is constructive is beautiful, and what is harmful is ugly.

Source: Mary R. Lefkowitz and Maureen B. Fant, eds., Women’s Life in Greece and Rome: A Source Book in Translation, 3d ed. (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2005), pp. 41–44.

QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER